[Adrenalin: hormone secreted by the adrenal medulla that causes quickening of heart beat, strengthens force of the heart's contraction, opens airways in the lungs and numerous other effects; part of fight-or-flight reaction; same as epinephrine]

That would be more of a reaction then it is the ability to choose. Now the thing about instinct and the result after getting angry as one of your examples, I don't know how to fully respond with out presenting what I believe (faith) into the debate. It may result in irrational thinking and possible dumb actions but you still know what you are doing, and I believe you have the choice to go through with it or compress yourself. Just because if someone has alot of adrenalin it doesn't mean that they don't have a choice to stop.

When ever I get really (I mean Really) angry after something that I didn't like happens I can stop my actions, but that doesn't mean that I am not angry still, it happens all the time to me and I usually stop myself because I realize that it doesn't just effect me but others. That there is MY choice to let myself be controlled or not (free will) I will try to come up with a better answer and solution after I get my sources and demonstrations better suited.



Kind of off this subject I was thinking about the things that are physical and not, and I thought came to me isn't everything is that is physical limited? And everything that is not physical for example "time" we know it exist because everything is in motion but other then that we can't prove that there is time and isn't it limitless because time can existed constantly in the past and onwards into the future.

If everything that is physical in this universe is limited then wouldn't there be a high point, without becoming perfect, in everything and unable to keep on improving, if that is then wouldn't that disprove evolution the possess of improving or being able to become perfect. Since nothing is perfect in this realm and time is limitless then everything must have started from somewhere and sometime when then because there is no beginning in time. Unless there is a perfect being in this case a god that created everything including time, and thus prove that there is a possibility of a spiritual, non-physical, realm.

After writing this I became freakin confused myself, I have no idea if my thoughts are even plausible. Be can anyone understate where I'm getting at? It is one of those things that you can better understand in your mind and very hard if not impossible to explain in words.

I was thinking to answer to what you call free will first, but since I am tired and don't remember the word I was looking for I decided to reply to your answer on my comment instead.

Well you as you explained can control your actions with your free will, when you get REALLY angry, and that is something you share with almost everyone in the world. But that is since your body don't produce enough adrenalin to make your instincts take over automatically. It is a reason why nice people turns into maniacs in war, and I think that a battle inside them with anger and adrenalin against common sense is going on, and the adrenalin wins very often since one of the human instincts is to kill. It was right about here I was going to start talking about free will, but I have to think about a little bit first.

Adrelalin doesn't make you turn aggresive...it is another hormone.
Adrenalin only makes your reactions faster, in order to survive.
And you don't "release" adrenalin when you're angry. It appears mainly in survival cases of
wounds, near-death experiences.
It can have association with anger in few cases.
One of the human instincts is to kill, only in order to survive. It isn't a lust for killing.
Large ammounts of testosterone that are responsible for aggresive actions.
Fear too can be responsible for those sort of actions.

I think free will is beyond all that. Hormones can affect you, but they won't "take over" you.

But until now, the discussion is very nice!

I would be lying if is said that I never get really angry, there is not one person on earth that has never gotten really angry. Of course I have given into my anger and I am therefore responsible.

And you say man is intrinsically bad for his instinct "is to kill," saying that man is evil at birth. So we both stand on the ground that man is born evil.... That is one thing I definitely agree on is that man is sinful from a Christian point of view.

I have no idea what adrenalin acutally and truely does have to read more about it. But you use it as your bases of your argument that it is something that controls your body at a given time, wouldn't that be a reaction on how your body handles it. Are you not getting increased amounts of adrenalin because something that you did not like was or had happened to you and therefore you act in a hostle manner. You chose to act that way because something bad happend that you that you didn't like so you reacted.

The only way I see that I don't have complete control over is the choice to not ever sin, in that case I guess we would be given into our instincits (sinful nature) without choice. I told you that I could not fully reply without involving what I believe (faith), but I had to involve it a little this time, because I would have gotten no where.

Great point HollyBell just what I was implying but you said it better then I did "Hormones can AFFECT you[a reation], but they won't [can't] "take over" you."

It sounds like you don't believe in free will, I may be wrong if you are not implying that. I would like to know what is your belief is on the matter of free will.

you can release adrenalina in others cases, not only with wounds, near-death experiences. for example when you face an angry dog or in certain sports, it makes you able to make things that you would never imagine

I dont thinks that everything is physical in this universe, but I cant explain my point for now:susp:

also these questions arose to me

what would people make if the existence of Heaven is verified ?... maybe we would be a threat ...........

also some people thinks that if they go to hell they are going to be in a place of parties, a lot of music and a lot of things they enjoy, but if hell is a place to suffer, they cant do all those things they enjoy right?

adrenaline is also called 'emergency hormone' because it acts if you're in a critical situation(or playing burnout in ps2)... :E

MK1 it depends of what I meant by physical universe/realm, I am talking about everything that exists in the universe like sound, speed, matter, time, radiation, etc., besides stuff that is spiritual. Even though you you can't touch it or see it sometimes they exist and still happens here, so that is why I put them in the physical category.

And what are you talking about..Heaven a threat??

Yeah hell is the opposite of heaven!! it is a place of pain beyond measure, never ending. If someone ever got a chance to talk to us about what hell is like he would probably spit, a sea full of spit, on that theory.
How would I know that? There is not one religion that is not a cult believes in that possibility at least I'm pretty sure there isn't.

And again I would like to see your view on free will ElYoungDiablo!

yeah sorry about late commenting, but since it is my 50th post I would like to have it sorted out. I have now thought about how I think about free will all day and here is what I found out when I seeked inside myself.

Well I believe in free will, so that is said. But I have a different point of view about what is free will than the majority of the people. I believe that you don't use your free will very often. Since I mean that free will is either completely free will or influenced (free) will. Our day to day choices I mean we use our influenced will. Influenced will is in my opinion will that is influenced by media, pressure, friends, expectations, a person we admire etc. For my example I am going to use two chocolate bars.

When you choose between two chocolate bars in the shop, you have to think about a lot of factors(coolness,price,pressure,media and more). You can say and I am sure almost everybody does that it is your free will to chose your chocolate bar even with those factors, but there I disagree. Cause the word "free" is in my mind completely free, and "free will", is your mind and choices alone without any influence. A time when I mean you truly use your free will is when you fall in love. You can't decide who you will fall in love with, and when you fall in love you uses what I mean is your free will cause it reflects the true you, and not you trying to do what is right.

Well I see now that I didn't get to explain all I had in my mind, but I hope I have at least managed to show my opinion, even though it is quite blurry

Alright, to clarify.

First, regarding adrenalin, I believe that some are missing the point. It doesn't matter what hormone or chemical it is. Whatever it may be, it represents a physical force acting on your body and your consciousness. Free will is not so directly the ability to make decisions, but the ability to resist a physical force, such as a hormone and act in a way contrary to pure biology.

With regard to the views on Heaven and Hell, I would enjoy some comment on my perception of the matter. Rather than restate it, though, I will simply direct attention back to the beginning of this thread.

Also, I will be leaving tomorrow for a week or so, and as a result I will be unable to respond. I do look forward to seeing what is posted though upon my return. This really has turned into an wonderfully captivating thread.

I hope your not getting the wrong impression of me, I will try to define my view free-will, I believe that whatever choice I make no matter if it is the right decision or the wrong decision I am held responsible. That is a choice. There are a few times that I think that we have no control of what we do...such as demon possession (after the fact that you received it), choice to not do wrong (sin), and a few others that I can't think of right now. I believe that I am not a slave to my actions but I was when it came to the flesh and its weight (the burdens it carries), but the fact that I fail and the reason my body fails. And the fact that I exist my body fails. So no way around failure.

Basically I believe that since I am held responsible for my actions I must have been given, for the most part and times, the choice to follow through or go against those actions. There are some things that are hard to explain with words but I tried. Confusing right? lol :)

that is exactly what I feel about free will.

If I choose my path of living, I will be held responsible for what I did and what I haven´t done.
Free will is the choice you do. You have many paths, but you will choose one.
The act of thinking on the possibilities, knowing the responsabilities, doing what your souls believes is best, and being able to choose; all that is the manifestation of free will on the human being.
But what is best about free will is that your choice isn´t necessarely influenced by external influences. You have your own system of avaliating the options.

And, I don´t think the process of avaliating the options is mechanical, and determined.
If I didn´t make myself clear, please tell me ^_^

hmm...free will...

In my own words, free will is like being yourself.

You choose your own path...

You make your own risks...

You make your own decisions...

and...

You make your own life and destiny...

Quote

Originally posted by Lanz (view)
hmm...free will...

In my own words, free will is like being yourself.

You choose your own path...

You make your own risks...

You make your own decisions...

and...

You make your own life and destiny...

Would you ever make a decision that wouldn't constitute "being yourself"?
This is more towards what I am getting at...

(Sorry to the others, I've been busy and haven't been able to respond in detail yet to some of you)

Lanz when I saw your line: In my own words, free will is like being yourself. I thought of a question that probably some of you has thought about before:

Is somebody that is shy and timid as much themselves as them that are outgoing and open with their feelings?

I don't really get what you are trying to say ElYoungDiablo. Are you talking about why are there some may people with different personalities?

And Fizzyboy I don't understand, are you saying would I ever do something that is completely different my normal self(personality)?
If it is the case then I would say yes there are a couple of times of which I have done the complete opposite of what I usually do and who I am normally. But it doesn't mean that I am not the same person, unless you really wanted to change everything that you are(personality) and what you stand for I think that there are limitations by which you can change who you are.
Take killing for example if a person kills for the first time and forces themselves to keep killing it may almost feel normal for them to kill someone after awhile. (not a good example but you understand where I am getting at?)